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blogs.gnome.org

This is a truly WTF moment about messed up responses to X11 session removal in Gnome.

2 weeks ago I published a blogpost about the upcoming plans of GNOME 49 and the eventual removal of the X11 session. Since then, instead of looking at feedback, bugs and issues related to the topic, we all collectively had to deal with the following, and I am not exaggerating one bit:

  • Fascists and Nazis
  • Wild Conspiracy Theories that make Qanon jealous
  • “Concerned” Trolling about the Accessibility of the Wayland session
  • A culture war where Wayland is Gay, and X11 is the glorious past they stole from you

In my wildest dreams I could have never made this shit up. You all need mandatory supervised access to the Internet from now on.

  • trevor (he/they)@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    1226·
    6 个月前

    This probably has a lot to do with the new DOA XServer fork being “anti-DEI” (pro-discrimination). When these slimy shitweasels go out and vice signal about how bigoted they are, they congregate around it and form a new harassment campagin because they have no life.

    Sorry you’re getting harassed. I hope you can take solace in the fact that these little pissbabies lead miserable lives.

  • CodexArcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    798·
    6 个月前

    There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here. Go back to the cave you crawled out from where no sunlight can reach.

    NAZI! DEVS! FUCK! OFF! 💯

    • LiveLM@lemmy.zipEnglish
      31·
      6 个月前

      Can confirm, having my different refresh rate monitors play nice with each other is extremely homosexual.

    • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
      111·
      6 个月前

      … Does this imply that Wayland has a penis?

      Asking… For science, or something, I dunno what is going on.

    • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
      5·
      6 个月前

      X11 is on/under your ass?
      Maybe they were both gay all along, that’s why we enjoy their sessions so much.

  • the_wiz@feddit.org
    511·
    6 个月前

    X11 AND Wayland are for degenerates, a distraction at best but mostly just something that wastes CPU cycles and RAM.

    THE FUTURE IS TERMINAL!

      • the_wiz@feddit.org
        7·
        6 个月前

        Thank you for this new rabbit hole that thanks to my pathological curiosity for software on the far side of normalcy i now HAVE to explore and waste time i should spend working on a project 😜

        • pfr@lemmy.sdf.org
          4·
          6 个月前

          Oh, your welcome. It’s a great rabbit hole. I remember venturing down it for the first time some years ago. I’ve since been able to build arcan from source and get pipeworld working on void linux. It’s not daily drivable yet, (not for me at least) but it works, and it’s cool as fuck.

          • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
            1·
            6 个月前

            Gotta say, his latest post, Sunsetting Cursed Terminal Emulation, really reminded me of some programming woes you can read from The Unix Haters’ Handbook.

            terminal emulators aren’t leaky abstractions, they’re quite literally the abstraction being leaked :-D.
            \x64k@lobste.rs

      • lime!@feddit.nuEnglish
        1·
        6 个月前

        YES! i would love it if arcan/durden/lash-cat9 got some mainstream traction.

      • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
        3·
        6 个月前

        I have been known to use XMODEM over screen over telnet for file transfer.

  • CoyoteFacts@piefed.caEnglish
    491·
    6 个月前

    As a commenter on that post says, this sort of talk is also common in the comments of Phoronix articles. The commenter says they’ve completely stopped supporting Phoronix since it’s clear that Michael enables this behavior by not moderating it (the least he could do is disable commenting; the type of people that are in the Phoronix comments are the absolute worst). It’s been festering for a very long time, unfortunately. Click any Phoronix article that’s older than a day and check the negativity. Worse, click an article about a controversial topic like X11/Wayland/Systemd/bcachefs/KDE/GNOME/etc. and it’s just a shitshow.

    I’ve been seeing it to a lesser degree here as well. I don’t know what it is about X11 that really riles up the conspiracy theorists.

    • Feyd@programming.dev
      24·
      6 个月前

      YES. Phoronix articles are good but the comment sections are insane. There are a few very vocal users that would have been banned on any reasonably moderated forum, and they largely chase out the reasonable people.

      Also, occasionally there is an article about CoC or something that is obviously going to bring the loonies out of the woodwork. The comment section will get closed, but not until after the giant flamewar has gone on for a bit. Michael has to know that’s going to happen and make the decision not to close it immediately when he makes the post.

    • Maiq@lemy.lol
      6·
      6 个月前

      The only thing I miss about X11 is xscreensaver. I hope the dev makes a port for wayland one day. I dont care if it ever has screen locking, i just want bouncing cows.

    • lai, a supersonic warrior@piefed.socialEnglish
      11·
      6 个月前

      lol Lunduke shot against Michael (Phoronix) and you, which seem to be from the other political side now aswell! xD

      i think michael is doing a good job moderating and in his voverage of xlibre.

  • fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.comEnglish
    39·
    6 个月前

    There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here

    So who took the blog post down at Gnome?

    • Victor@lemmy.world
      81·
      6 个月前

      switch from Gnome to a cooler window manager 🤷

      I think that’s easier for us to say, who actually do use something cooler. But for those whose workflow is messed up by this, I understand why they’re upset. But yeah, it’s time to move into the future, for real. High time.

        • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          6 个月前

          What? The last major change to the gnome workflow was going from vertical to horizontal workspaces, and that was several years ago.

          • Victor@lemmy.world
            51·
            6 个月前

            going from vertical to horizontal workspaces

            Do you mean vice versa? Or did they go back to horizontal again? 😅

              • Victor@lemmy.world
                2·
                6 个月前

                Oh wow, so they did. I have missed that 😅 I’ve been using i3 for like the last 10–15 years. Gnome being back to horizontal workspaces again like in GNOME 2 is wild to me. It’s a great change!

          • chortle_tortle@mander.xyz
            41·
            6 个月前

            Mostly just trash talking how so much basic functionality is in add-ons that break frequently with updates.

            • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              6 个月前

              You can disable version checking and have them run if you want to, although that’s probably not advisable.

  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    324·
    6 个月前

    I do think ditching X11 is still slightly premature. For all its more modern features, there’s still a lot that Wayland either hasn’t implemented yet or “can’t do” because of its “security model.”

    • XenGi@feddit.orgEnglish
      52·
      6 个月前

      Can you name something that’s missing? Because I can’t think of anything relevant.

      • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
        71·
        6 个月前

        Do we have a widely adopted aolution yet for screensharing, global shortcuts, and window position restoration?

        • XenGi@feddit.orgEnglish
          8·
          6 个月前

          Screen sharing under gnome and KDE just works. Even in sway that’s solved for quite a while now. I would call that widely adopted. I haven’t encountered the other two as problems yet. Global shortcuts work in my sway session. I would expect nothing else from gnome and KDE. Window position restoration is also a standard feature in sway AFAIK. Not sure if gnome or KDE do it.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2·
            6 个月前

            It’s roughly equivalent to AutoHotKey on Windows. It’s an application that can intercept key combos or even typed strings and…do basically anything. Let’s say you type a certain phrase a lot, you could come up with an abbreviation so that when you type an abbreviation it deletes the abbreviation and inserts the big thing you type. Or maybe you want it to fire when you press ALT+ y. Or, maybe you want it to do something programmatic, like insert the date and time. Or do anything you can get Python to do.

            This apparently does not work on Wayland systems, something about the way it accessed keystrokes in X11 isn’t open in Wayland for security concerns.

            • XenGi@feddit.orgEnglish
              5·
              6 个月前

              Honestly that sounds like a security nightmare and its probably a good thing that doesn’t work anymore.

              • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                11·
                6 个月前

                Honestly if pressing some buttons to get the computer to do something you programmed it to do is a “security nightmare” I think we should probably just give up, tear down the electric grid and go back to dying of smallpox at 17 like nature intended.

            • hoppolito@mander.xyzEnglish
              4·
              6 个月前

              I don’t know autokey, so I can’t speak to whether they replace all its functionality but there are ‘xdotool-like’ programs for Wayland. So it is at least very possible to replace functionality like the latter you mentioned (press button/button combination -> do an action, like inserting date/start a program/do something programmatic). Some examples I know are:

      • swelter_spark@reddthat.comEnglish
        94·
        6 个月前

        I"ve been experimenting with both Cosmos and XFCE Wayland.

        Color pickers, screenshot, and window recording/streaming all don’t seem to work or require Wayland-only packages that are extremely primitive in features and use.

        Alt+tabbing out of games, whether fullscreen or windowed, also doesn’t seem to work.

        Wallpapers and cursors installed to the standard location where the distro installs all of them don’t seem to be usable. I have to manually copy them to somewhere in the home directory in order to use them.

        Screensavers seem to be unusable except for one port of xscreensavers.

        I know OpenSUSE plans to eliminate x11, so I’m trying to get used to Wayland, but I do hope it’s more developed before I have to use it full time.

        • 90s_hacker@reddthat.com
          7·
          6 个月前

          tbf, aren’t both of those still in early stages? I don’t think I’ve had any issues with those on KDE wayland

        • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          6 个月前

          I"ve been experimenting with both Cosmos [I’m assuming you mean Cosmic, System76’s upcoming DE?] and XFCE Wayland.

          So the only Wayland implementations you’ve tried are ones in Alpha or Beta?

          Tbh that seems like an unfair comparison. You’re comparing alpha and beta software to production-ready software, and complaining about it not being as stable.

          Wayland is a lot more mature on Gnome or Plasma. I started using Wayland on Gnome in 2019, and aside from when I briefly tested with an Nvidia card a number of years ago, the only issue I’ve ever had was screen sharing on discord, which was ‘Discord are pathologically against updating their electron version’ issue, not a Wayland issue.

  • ViatorOmnium@piefed.socialEnglish
    21·
    6 个月前

    Is it so surprising that the mindset that makes people unable to face changes in one area of their lives also makes them unable to face changes in other areas?

  • Rusty Shackleford@programming.devEnglish
    9·
    6 个月前

    I use X11 over Wayland on KDE Neon for RustDesk compatibility. The Wayland support for that application is still in Beta from what I understand.

    Are there other reasons why I should keep X11? I am on AMD Ryzen 9 5950X paired with a RTX 3090 FE on 570-open drivers, for reference.