I’ve been seeing this more and more in comments, and it’s got me wondering just how big this issue really is. A lot of people feel trapped in apps like Discord, WhatsApp, and Instagram, but can’t get their friends to leave.
It’s really annoying when you suggest trying something new, whether it’s a different app or just not using these platforms so much but sometimes it can feel like no one wants to go first.
So I’m curious, what apps do you feel most trapped in? And have you tried convincing your friends to leave them? What happened? Is it an issue for you, or are you just going along with the flow?
Looking forward to hearing if this is as common as it feels!
It’s Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp for me. I ditched the Facebook app a long time ago, but Messenger and Whatsapp remain on my device because no one wants to leave them. I try to keep my chats there as superficial as possible.
Also, this is my first comment ever on Lemmy, so hi everyone!
Welcome. A reminder for in case you don’t know, if it starts to feel stale, then it’s probably because of your viewing settings. If you switch it from Active (ironically, the least active), to Hot, 6 hours, Scaled, etc. after you’ve gone through all of the new to you posts, you’ll see a lot more action.
Thanks for the tip!
All your chat history has been published to the fediverse now. Welcome to Lemmy.
No one wants to leave because nobody is leaving.
You’re still on WhatsApp and Messenger, they can still contact you that way, so why would they bother changing?
Pick a date, a week, a month, whatever, from now. Tell those you message regularly that you will be deleting all Meta apps on that date. Make it clear that that includes WhatsApp and Messenger. Explain why. I just linked some articles instead of having a long explanation but it still made it clear why.
Let them know they can contact you via Signal/SMS/email whatever you use after that date.
If the informed don’t take the leap, the ignorant never will.
Welcome to lemmy!
Welcome!
Some tips:
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You can block other users, other communities, and other instances yourself; you don’t have to wait for the mods or admins to do that for you
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If a mod or an admin of an instance choose to block certain things that you disagree with, you can sign up for another instance with your same name, assuming nobody’s taken it; you won’t be able to transfer your comments, votes, or posts though; there’s been feedback given to the Lemmy devs about this
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Search by Everything and Active to see new posts show up in your feed daily
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There’s lots of diverse opinions on Lemmy, but they tend to concentrate around politics and tech; maybe consider starting your own community or instance if there’s something here you want to see!
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To use the Discord analogy, Lemmy instances are Discord communities, Lemmy communities are Discord channels, and users are just users; we’ll often write c/Whatever to refer to a community, but due to the Federated nature of Lemmy, you may find a community like c/Politics on multiple instances (like lemmy.world or lemmy.ml); not sure if the Lemmy devs have a fix for this
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Asking people to leave things means they’re losing a line of communication to friends, family, and interest groups who still use those things. It’s probably more productive to ask people to add the services you prefer rather than leave the ones they’re used to.
I’ve encountered some resistance from Americans who use iPhones and hate the idea of adding a third-party messaging app. None of them seem very interested in justifying that position.
Companies like Apple spent a lot to create a switching cost in almost every product. The “bubble” color is also a HUGE thing in the US, and is often times the sole reason for not wanting to leave iMessage.
It’s not the bubble color. It’s what the bubble color signifies. ie: no rich communication services, no high quality video or audio calls, no stickers, no videos, low quality images, etc.
It’s not just that. I find SMS to be slower in terms of call and response vs iMessage. It’s like my android friends take longer to reply.
Very possible this is just latency intentionally introduced by Apple to make the experience worse. They’ve been known to do things like that.
They also intentionally degrade the quality of video feeds from non-Apple users, and intentionally degrade the quality of received MMS images.
Well pre-RCS they routed android users differently because they were not compatible. Google did something similar, but in reverse, adding back things like reactions, etc. to make android users not feel like they were getting a 2nd rate experience.
Certainly, but installing additional messaging apps on a phone has almost no cost on either iPhone or Android. It’s interesting that iPhone users seem to dislike the idea more.
The having to do something is the cost, because they have a perfectly good messaging app already, “why can’t you just use that?”
And that cost is more on Apple’s platform because Apple has been designing it that way since the beginning. It’s the whole reason android users got a different color bubble, not because they had to, but it was a way to identify the person that wasn’t using an iPhone and make them stand out. Making it almost unimaginable to switch to Android for youth who care so much about not being “out” of the group.
And Google has identified this, and put a lot of cringe-worthy effort into addressing it at their Pixel event this time around.
they have a perfectly good messaging app already, “why can’t you just use that?”
Only running on one brand of phone would be the obvious reason here. Installing an additional app seems like a slightly smaller ask than buying a different phone.
As someone whose only apple devices are ipads, the big lockin isn’t imessage vs an SMS client. It’s FaceTime vs, Zoom/GMeet/Jitsi. Mind you, it is nice being able to use iMessage with my wife when I have internet, and then swap over to SMS quickly. Sure, my two devices don’t have a persistent conversation, but her device does.
FaceTime vs, Zoom/GMeet/Jitsi
Is the advantage availability among your contacts, or something about the UX?
Holistically it’s UX.
If my wife or others in my life who use Apple want to contact me, they don’t have to go into a specific app and hope that I’m looking at it. They can go into iMessage, click the camera, and poof, a video call starts up. The only software I use that does that otherwise is Discord, and that’s not integrated with SMS/MMS. It’s the connection too (which is just as much part of UX) - I’ve had problems with Zoom or others due to connection strength, but not with FaceTime.
The fact that it’s a “just-works” solution is important.
they don’t have to go into a specific app and hope that I’m looking at it
Do the others not ring your phone? I don’t video call often, but when I do it’s usually with Signal, and that definitely rings my phone.
No, my phone (Android) usually has notifications/ringers muted
This sounds like a pretty unusual configuration. I don’t imagine most people can be reached more reliably using an app that only runs on their tablet than apps that run on their phone.
You can do the exact same thing with any of hundreds of different messaging apps. The only advantage is that they’re using the same messaging app, because it comes installed by default, you can’t remove it, and they don’t allow you to replace SMS with anything else. If you use an Android phone, it most likely comes with Google Messages pre-installed, which does the exact same thing.
In other words, it’s nothing to do with “user experience” and everything to do with being in a particular ecosystem.
On Android, I prefer QKSMS, actually.
I use Arch BTW
Literally all of that UX is the same and better in other apps though.
For example, every single part of your description applies to video and text conversations with my SO and friends, except we all use Signal. It “just works”, and better than Facetime because it doesn’t matter what device my SO and friends have.
With Facetime it doesn’t “just work” at all with the large number of people I know who don’t have Apple. That’s a huge disadvantage which means that Facetime UX sucks.
You just said what they said but the opposite. Both are wrong. Being in the same ecosystem is not UX. It’s not something that anyone can design around.
So you don’t consider it an impact on the experience of using a product when it either does or doesn’t function on your device? Sounds like a most basic concept of UX to me, but I dunno what you mean, maybe.
Networking effect
People use whatever is most popular even if its the shittest thing such as Facebook.
Only time people will care is when it personally and tangibly affects them.
For Facebook/whatsapp watomatic can be used to remind people you are leaving or such.
I remember when Snapchat was extremely popular for messaging. One of the worst apps I’ve ever used. Just an absolutely atrocious UI.
Discord is a hard one because it has some uniqueness to it.
It has bots, text channels, voice channels, and hundreds of thousands of people can join it if you need to.
A lot of my college clubs use it and there are a few thousand students in our biggest ones
It’s not unique, it’s just XMPP + Mumble.
I used to play with a large community and every time a new game would come out we’d always setup forum software, an XMPP (chat software) server and a Mumble server for that game. This was pretty easy to get done because we were all working in tech, but if you were an average gamer it wasn’t something that you could handle.
Discord packaged the text, voice and forum software into one application and they handle the server hosting. It only costs all of your privacy and $10/mo.
You say it’s not unique and then list the ways it’s unique by packaging up multiple different services into 1.
Totally agree it’s a privacy nightmare but you discredit the service too much. There’s a reason it’s widely adopted the way it is, and it’s not because it’s the same as everything else.
It isn’t unique, it provides text, voice and video chatting. These are not new services to the world of technology.
What makes Discord stand apart is that they require that your chats, calls and streams are not private and, in exchange for people giving up their private data the users only have to install one piece of software instead of two. It is like a company giving people a ‘free’ phone as long as they or their advertisers can listen into the calls, read the texts and look at the videos on the phone.
The only thing that Discord does is to package the software in such a way that you can’t access it until you give them information about you and then they gate features behind you identifying yourself with a credit card and a phone number.
Maybe I’ll give this a shot when I have some free time.
TIL that discord is not part of the fediverse.
It’s because our marketing sucks. People don’t care about their privacy, they like what is cool. So what does that mean? It mean we gotta make using open source app so cool that people can’t help but join because all the cool kids are here. You feel me? Preaching alone is not enough although it will benefit all of us
I less have an issue with people getting trapped in software they understand is insecure, and more with people who will push shit like telegram and pretend its the most private and secure thing ever invented. If they want to use discord, sure, fine with me. As long as they know not to do their activist work on discord I’m fine with it. People doing activist work/planning over telegram will never make me not cringe.
Signal isn’t something I personally want to use, but its tolerable, and it was doing a good job of replacing telegram in activist spaces I felt, but I’ve recently seen a few different groups using telegram again because they don’t trust signal.
xmpp with omemo is what I wish I could get people to use but uh, well, that just will never happen.
How do you set up XMPP with OMEMO as anonymously as possible? My friend and I would love to video call each other, currently we’re using SimpleX for this, but it’s very buggy. We use Molly for calling and SimpleX for texting, both of us are switching to using Libreboot laptops with QubesOS to communicate :)
I love teaching my friend privacy. He’s really gotten into it, I’ve done a good job making him just as paranoid as I am!
I’m gonna be honest, its been so long since I’ve actually had people to set it up and use it with that even I would need to spend a day and a half figuring out how to set it up again.
People don’t typically like change. It has to feel like it’s their decision to drive them there.
Probably the idea of “all my other friends are on the mainstream platform so why would i move to another platform specifically for you?”
What are some good alternatives to discord?
matrix works pretty well as a discord replacement, it’s sometimes unreliable when you’re using a selfhosted instance but I’d wager it’d work smooth enough for a non techie if you turn off end to end encryption
if you turn off end to end encryption
isn’t that the main reason to use it though, privacy?
imo the biggest appeal is decentralisation and non corporate ownership, ofc the matrix people are trying their best to do e2ee and whatnot but iirc media isn’t encrypted e2e and it’s inferior to signal or whatever
also for a large fraction of discord’s usage (large open access guilds) encryption doesn’t mean anything
SMS
Nobody wants to use a messaging app at all. At this point I’d rather be stuck on WhatsApp. But its all family. Big family and try to get them to agree on anything is like pulling teeth.
I even sent everybody a “contact card” I made with my links to signal, simplex, and even whatsapp (figuring that’s the path of least resistance) saying I’d prefer to communicate on any of those apps. ZERO people changed nor did they even ask about it, options, or my reasoning.
I did a similar contact card thing for (real) people I cared about from Discord. 2 people installed signal to keep up. 20+ invites went out before I nuked they account. One person already had signal. The other one that installed it now ghosts all my signal comms attempts.
Not really. I have none of those apps or alternatives. and I don’t know anyone I want to chat with on Discord, WhatsApp, Insta, or other. Not that I’m antisocial, I just have no interest. Lemmy is about as close as I want to get to anyone. Before, it was Reddit, but they have tanked as a place to search for knowledge.
so refreshing to find likeminded people here.
Also, it’s so refreshing to find real people here.
I’m also older than Methuselah, so that might be a factor. Back when the internet was young, it was interesting talking to real people. However, in today’s timeline where I have to slog through all the bots, all the assholes, all the individuals with an agenda or ax to grind, I just find it tedious.
I think they are out there, it’s just that there are so many bots, anonymous assholes, people with agendas and axs to grind, that the real people just get swamped.
So just use something different yourself. Then ask your friends to communicate with you there. You don’t need them to quit the old, you need to ask them to use something new.
“privacy? Yeah whatever, they just use it to catch bad people right? I have nothing to hide. I don’t have the time to learn all this VPN stuff. Don’t forget to like my posts!”
Don’t forget to like my posts!”
FBI Likes This
I convinced my friends to get Discord so we could communicate as a community without Facebook. Now I have figured out it is just as bad. I tried Matrix and couldn’t figure out how to log in before I heard it’s enshittification is underway.
Endhittification is often the result of an established centralized platform that got that way via giving unfairly good deals because they had a lot of investment becoming suddenly greedy and controlling to make that money back. Matrix, meanwhile, is just a protocol. It quite literally cannot be enshittified unless the protocol is updated to do something a certain way that benefits the developers over the users, because a user can simply switch providers. Even though the org that develops it is also a provider and I hear they’re going freemium, that is a service that costs money to render. I’m not surprised they need more money to offer hosting and maintain the software behind it. Unless the protocol is being modified in a way that hinders or scams us or steals our data, saying matrix is enshittifying is like saying email or HTTP is enshittifying.
So then it is still worthwhile to try to host a matrix server? Cool. I guess I need to get the login part figured out so I can try it first. I think DBZer0 has one I can try. Thanks for explaining. I am in a hurry to try it now so my friends have yet somewhere else to go.
Yeah, this is so fucking annoying. I’ve been banging on about Signal for years, but everyone except a small handful of my wisest friends insist upon using WhatsApp and Discord.
Almost everyone I know also uses Instagram, and no other social media. I am yet to meet someone in real life who even has Mastodon.
I have told people about Lemmy for a year now.
