The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts.
It certainly wasn’t perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system.
I’m not sure why you’re thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don’t really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren’t democratic (they weren’t dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2.
My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple “they weren’t dude” doesn’t disprove historical fact.
Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there’s really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli’s essay, but these flaws weren’t because they had the “wrong recipe,” but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built.
As for the “tankie” jab, I’m not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general.
USSR? You know, the MVPs of WW2?
Good one! :D
I wasn’t joking. Or was the USSR a functioning democracy?
The USSR was a functioning democracy, moreso than its peer countries. Rather than being entirely decided by Capital, the Soviets extended democratic input to the economic sector. Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan and This Soviet World by Anna Louise Strong are both good first-hand accounts.
It certainly wasn’t perfect, either, but it was a dramatic improvement on Capitalism. Zhenli has a good article on contextualizing some of the failures of democracy in early Socialism, as well as pointing out how western leftists often let the perfect Socialism in their heads be the enemy of the flawed but really existing Socialism in the real world, that faces real struggles thanks to being a really existing system.
I’m not sure why you’re thinking that I was making any kind of values judgment about the USSR whatsoever (honestly, don’t really feel like getting into it with a tankie right now). All I said was that they weren’t democratic (they weren’t dude), and they were probably our most important ally during WW2.
My point was about the USSR being democratic, which is historically true. They held elections, decided economic decisions collectively, and extended democracy not just from the realm of deciding which bourgeois politician or party represents you to the economic and political sectors governing policy and direction. A simple “they weren’t dude” doesn’t disprove historical fact.
Unless, of course, your parameters for deciding if something is democratic or not is decided by vibes, there’s really no reason to call it undemocratic. As an overall measure of material functions of democracy, the USSR was more democratic than the major powers of the allies and axis during World War II. They certainly had flaws with their democracy, hence the inclusion on my part of Zhenli’s essay, but these flaws weren’t because they had the “wrong recipe,” but because democracy is a material structure that needs to be built.
As for the “tankie” jab, I’m not going to apologize for being a Marxist. I agree that they were the most important force in World War II, but I disagree with your characterization of their democracy, hence why I offered sources for you or onlookers to read into to learn more. The opening of the Soviet Archives has only affirmed these primary sources as accurate, and the Zhenli essay helps us reframe how we think about building democratic structures in general.