It’s about Russia and it’s militarist expansionism, not about Trump.
Its both. But not to appease trump, but to be prepared in case of a standoff
Yeah, I suspect you’re right.
“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. […] The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.” - Eisenhower
Kewl. If only there wasn’t a country that invaded another country on our borders, that openly talks about invading even more, fucking about with our utilities and using spies, the internet and sabotage to fuck around even more.
A comfy life needs to be secured with military might, like it or not. Otherwise you get assholes in shitholes trying to forcefully take it from you. Rome knew that, the US knows that, the EU knows this (otherwise it wouldn’t exist - since it is made to increase bargaining power and contains mutual defense clauses).
So until Russia stops being a militaristic shithole that invades its neighbors and starts building those schools, power plants, hospitals and highways, we need to spend taxes on military. And yes, Russia is a threat - Georgia shown us, 2014 has shown us, 2022 has shown us.
You really like that weapon trader’s penis. Don’t forget to lick the shaft
Maybe the NATO shouldn’t have coup’ee the USSR in the 90ies then. They’re the one who created ultranationalist regimes in Russia. Remember Yeltsin?
And there it is, everything is NATOs fault. If only we gave everything to Russia, the world would be saved.
Tell me, why are there no more Tatars in Crimea?
This is like URSS bingo:
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They were deported
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They were starved to death
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They were sent to war
…
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Tell me, why are there no more Tatars in Crimea?
There are, in fact, Tatars in Crimea.
Compared to before, no, there aren’t. There has been an ongoing genocide since the tsarist times, that the soviet union “finished”. Thousands of people completely relocated. That’s why people are “wary” of Russia - because it is a genocidal state since time immemorial.
Compared to before, no, there aren’t.
Well, that can be said about Greeks and Armenians in Crimea as well as Crimean Tatars. That’s because after Stalin’s forced movement to Kazakhstan (which is barbaric act, of course) or wherever, when descendants of those people were allowed to return, they were more likely to move elsewhere in the union. And after 1991 Greeks would often repatriate, well, to Greece, changing the ethnic character of the whole Russian and Ukrainian Black Sea coast, and Crimean Tatars to Turkey.
I think you also underestimate the role of Sevastopol. Purely due to strategic importance there’d be people coming from all parts of the empire and the union, and the “melting pot culture” there was Russian.
There has been an ongoing genocide since the tsarist times,
That’s a weird way to say this, before Crimea becoming part of the Russian Empire the actual Crimean Khanate didn’t exist for too long. It seems you have a misconception of Crimean Tatars being some sort of the native population of Crimea. They were not. They were a nomad vassal state to the Ottoman Empire, conquerors themselves. They weren’t the majority there ethnically under that khanate either.
That’s why people are “wary” of Russia - because it is a genocidal state since time immemorial.
That’s gross from someone who’s likely a US-American or a European. Also “time immemorial” doesn’t quite mean what you seem to think.
Why did the US leagued with Germany to invade Russia in 1918?
Why did Russia league in with Nazi Germany to start World War 2?
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Stop protecting yourselves! Or I’ll attack!!
Do you know why NATO exists?
I love the silent downvote from people lmao. They got nothing to answers but they still don’t like what i said
They got plenty of answers and in return get insults from you. So people don’t bother anymore, you are just one of the hundreds of tankies on this site that will completely deny truth and try to twist the narrative.
To sell weapons.
I would love to hear your take on how NATO “coup’ee”'d Russia and installed Yeltsin. Don’t forget to include your sources 🤣
But there’s no point in answering a Lockheed Martin simp. You’re not better than a russian, just two différent brands of jingoists
Neither of those sources mention NATO
“Everything I don’t understand is a jingloist”
“Everybody who disagree with me on public policy is a russian bot”.
You’re American you fkn idiot why don’t you take care of your own country policies
The fuck we are. This sounds like psyop
Well the UK just cut disability benefits.
France is cutting support for chronically ill people.
The swiss government is planning on removing disability benefits for young people…
100% psyop
I distrust this type of article as China and Russia have lots to gain from trying to stirr up opposition or protests in Europe, especially on this topic of defense.
Von der leyen is notoriously in bed with the weapons industry
https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-ursula-von-der-leyen/
Dont care
Vdl is in bed with anyone that pays her. However we need the weapons. Russia and the US proofed it. We need to be able to defend ourselves from both of them.
Whine harder. There’s always an ennemy for the jingoists. My grandma fucking died of anemia in their understaffed “retirement home” but we’re buying F35s? Fuck you
No fuck you. Russia is attacking europe, planning to attack more countries in europe and you cry about making sure we can defend ourselves? Your grandma sure would be proud of you just wanting to roll over for the russians.
Give up your freedom and you can die in a russian shed lol.
These assholes spent the last fucking decade telling everybody we had no money for fucking hospitals and schools and trains, they fucked Greece and the so-called PIGS, a lot of people died or had their life destroyed, and now we have to go into debt to buy more guns?
My grandma fucking starved asshole fuck you
Like she’d do if we let russia invade us 😂
God you’re a fucking monster. Zero human empathy whatsoever.
Piece of shit
Who care about you you’re a jingoist from a country that elected geerts
Jesus fucking Christ. The fact that he is getting away with so much bullshit based solely on the fear that he might do something is absolutely infuriating. Like, I get it. I understand that it’s a complicated issue and these people caving to him are trying desperately to appease him to save their own countries or themselves. But this man, and whoever is backing him and possibly pulling the strings, is purposefully destroying society for more money and power. So much shit going backwards because less than 1% of the 8 billion of people on the entire fucking planet felt like they didn’t have enough.
And at the end of the day, when everyone is done appeasing a madman, what will be left? What kind of world will we create as we bend the knee to the man that wants us all to suffer? If you appease the madman to save yourself, the only thing you will get in return is a life of fear in a madman’s world.
The part that really gets me with this bending the knee shit is that he can have a dementia fit the day after they cut funding for their programs and they’ll be in the same spot.
Worse. More like less than 0.0001% of the humans on the planet.
With or without Trump, I don’t think Europe has a choice at this point. Yes, if they US held up their part against Russia, Europe would have to spend less. That’s the one area where Trump screwed Europe, but that being the case, Europe needs to spend this much on defense. Trump can just be a convenient excuse.
Now the question is: will they demilitarize if/when the threat dissipates? Methinks the EU is repeating the fatal appeasement strategy of the 1930s.
At this point, I’m pretty sure they’re just using it as an excuse to wreck social services.
Yeah trump have nothing to do with it lmao
https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-ursula-von-der-leyen/
He can get fucked by a huge pine cone. He and those that back him are enemies of humanity at this point, willfully choosing to be cruel and sacrificing lives for money and power.
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That would require them to use nato funding to invade the US. Not even if they just called it slavery straight up would that happen.
These are the same people that can’t even hold Isreal accountable and you expect them to stop the US from hurting itself ? Considering this is not the first time the US has done this to it’s citizens/legal immigrants Europe would be better off holding the US at arms lenth and hoping it implodes
The question is only posed if the US had a civil war: would NATO take a side?
I sure hope so. It would be dumb to let the Neo Confederates control the whole of North America, because their tendrils would violate all the other nations that can be reached. The ocean is a barrier that will eventually fail.
The only true way to prevent Europe’s soil from being soaked with blood, is to commit to bleeding on American dirt.
They’re activelly destroying Science in the US, pretty much guaranteeing their own fatal weakening in the mid and long term if they did win and ended up controlling North America.
With the notable exception of the US ending up using nukes and causing the end of the World, there is no way Europe would lose more from merely letting present day America eat itself up than it would from militarily intervening in a civil war in the US, because even a win by the Neo Confederates would yield a weakened American in the short term (because of the destruction of a Civil War) and even more in the long term because of their anti-Science stance, and likely braindrain.
(People seriously underestimate the likelihood of rich countries regressing. To give you an example, Argentina used to be the 5th weathiest country in the World and look at them now. America absolutelly would end up regressing, FAST, if the MAGA crowd with the policies it is already practicing gained absolute power).
Not to say that many Americans who aren’t Neo Confederates wouldn’t deserve the help, just saying that pragmatically speaking letting America consume itself would be better for Europe than militarily intervening in an American civil war.
Now, if this was 40 or 50 years ago it would be different, but present day America isn’t a force for good and there being a EU gives Europe enough strength as a team to stand up by itself to powers like China and Russia if they try anything, so there both isn’t all that much good (for the World as a whole) in America to be worth saving and Europe doesn’t actually require American support.
I have to disagree about Europe standing aside and allowing North America fight itself. Ask yourself this: what if Fascism won?
While the ideological blindness would undoubtedly make a Dogey America less effective, totalitarianism has something that democratic countries lack: Unadulterated ambition and not giving a damn who has to suffer for it. I feel that your position isn’t much different from the mainstream Democrats in America, who use “compromise” to get the easiest fruits for themselves, and simply standing aside to let things progress to their conclusion.
This passive stance innately allows people of stronger intent to control nations. It would be much better if the EU was proactive, otherwise Dogey America may very well be dictating how Europeans live. Good people should be willing to impose their beliefs, even if it feels bad. The alternative is ceding control to humans who lack the empathy to care about others.
I was born in Portugal, a country which was back then under a Fascist Dictatorship.
It was a dirt poor European country were things were so bad that it got Food Aid from other countries.
Fortunatelly, there was a Revolution not long after I was born. In the 5 - 10 years after the Revolution quality of life and average wealth in my country went up dramatically.
In my own country, Fascism came to power when the Finance Minister during Republican years who saved the country from Financial Ruin, just captured power and made himself President - so yeah, starting from a very low point Fascism can improve things a bit for a while, but it doesn’t take that many years for it to turn the whole thing into shit and that’s what happenned in Portugal.
Fascists might sometimes cause a little Economic bump if they take over from a very low point (the same happenned with the Nazis in Germany), but it never lasts, and the ones in America are already going at it so ineptly and haphazardously that I bet there’s not going to be any Economic bump.
The Fascists are incompetent as fuck and seriously regressive, so they eventually drag down any nations they take over once the cummulative side effects of their actions have time to work through the system. As America is already in a post-Imperial decay stage, Fascism will just accelerate that decay.
No. It’d require them to use NATO funding to defend the rest of the world from us.
They didn’t stop gaza. You think we’ll go save Americans after they voted for genocide? Lmao enjoy your own medecine
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No but other countries might want to take stock of what’s happening and weigh the pros and cons of increasing their defense spending.
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Don’t appease. Destroy. Did it work with you tied to appease any other dictators?
Does it say anywhere in the article what social programs are on the chopping block? I’ve heard this claim hundreds of times, but so far it’s on the basis of “it’s got to come from somewhere”. What if you build military hospitals, military infrastrtucture and military schools? Wink wink, nudge nudge.
russia is gearing towards Europe.
The first stage of the war is sowing discontent.
Read up on Gerasimovs doctrine.
it’s not listed because this is not what is happening
italy for example put bridge construction in that military budget (as critical infrastructure)
also the subtext was “spend that defense budget in america” and this is not happening either for variety of reasons, so it’s partial failure already for them
“spend that defense budget in america”
hah, yeah, that part is hilarious. tramp already ruined the f35 program by suggesting that the ones sold to allies would come with degraded specs…why sink funding in something that you can only use with american permission exclusively for their stupid wars?
there’s a couple of big failures in american defense industry (like shipbuilding) but F35 is not one of them. the alleged killswitch is not likely a thing because first, it could be used by the most probable adversary, and they already shown capability in EW; and second, it’s not necessary because it requires constant stream of spare parts and maintenance. as if it’s worth it, ask any remaining iranian radar operator for firsthand opinion
some countries switched to euro made jets anyway, but these aren’t likely to be doing the job that F35 is cut to do anyway (SEAD)
there’s already euro alternative in development, for which americans were explicitly not invited (GCAP, FCAS). there’s also the everything else part of military, half of euro countries make now artillery (both tube and rocket) so these can be bought locally too
Yes, but israel gets the F35I variant. They are probably independent in software, targetting (and parts?), because israel as the US golden child always gets the juiciest deals. The EU, meanwhile, gets the “leeches, warmongers, pathetic freeloaders” treatment.
at minimum brits have source code. couple of eu countries make parts for it as well
Opinion article. Also they missed many NATO Top nuances, like the whole political game. But yes, NATO members in Europe have been spending more, and more defense is and was needed.
It’s needed to appease Ursula’s little friends
https://www.politico.eu/article/the-scandal-hanging-over-ursula-von-der-leyen/
You really are a little kremlin bot aren’t you.
You’re a jingoist and a genocide voter. Your obsession with russians trolls is just because you consumed too much wartime propaganda.
People being against wars always have been considered any agent. McCartist motherfucker
It’s needed to appease Ursula’s little friends
Not really, NATO and EC( Ursula) are two different entities. She’s facing charges, for her vaccine deals. Nothing to do with defense.
Omg fuck the yanks I already never see my parents because they’re always working in their understaffed public job
Don’t bow down to the psychopath! You know he’s going to just pull out of NATO anyway.
If the US dumps NATO, that’s all the more reason to increase defence funding. Either that or start learning Russian.
I’d rather he did that than abandon NATO by surprise the moment russia attacks Narva or the Suwalki gap and give “putin, the gambler” the illusion that he can win against the EU…
Just read the article, and did it feel as though it was written by 3 different people to anyone else?
But anyway, the EU undeniably needed to spend more on their collective militaries with a hostile, expansionist neighbor on their doorstep. This is literally one of two things that Trump has been right about in his lifetime.
These days you’re lucky if there’s even one person writing it.
That’s not Trump being right, that’s Trump hanging all of America’s allies out to dry. A more serious effort to support Ukraine would make it functionally impossible for Russia to threaten Europe. More staunch support for NATO from the US would forestall any attempt at Russian aggression. The EU are setting military funding targets far beyond what Trump demanded, because this has nothing to do with Trump’s demands and everything to do with his litany of failures.
Two things can be true at the same time. But I’ll dispute that this is citizen citrus’s fault. European appeasement created the enemy they’re currently facing. Particularly merkel’s germany.
Trump is a swindler who is currently swindling. Europe is a militarily complacent economic bloc wholly dependent on the US. Frankly, this is a terrible, short sighted move, as this removes US military leverage, but it’s a very Trump move.
I guess the camps for disabled are next on the list. The world is making its choice.
No please fuck no
where’s all those Europeans that were mocking the Americans on here for the past seven months?
cmon guys! show us how to protest!
pokes with stick
do the thing!
I dont know if theres any point in replying as you may have already been abducted by ice, but are you really that incompetent that you cant even organise a protest yourself (if it wasnt clear enough before americans are the most incompetent, useless people on earth)
Imagine your population having such a broom up their ass that they think learning about sex will turn their kids into free use sex toys.
Imagine thinking this is to appease the Imigrant Fellan Pedo Fasco President.
Imagine not knowing that this isnt 5% on military but 3.5% on military and 1.5% of set funding for the infrastructure.
Imagine thinking this actually impacts the social system of us. No germany currently isnt cutting down on it because of that but because the Union has always been stupid and has always been fucking over the poor and workers trying to appease the fasco voters of the AfD (it wont work)
Dont need to imagine it, just look in the mirrow :)
Hey, question. How is it going knowing that millions of your people now will die because of the new Tax and health rework because now they have to pay for their own medicine that keeps them alive, but cant afford it?
Its only been 6-7 months since and USA been fuuuck so hard internally and its position on the world stage. 3 years and 5-6 months still to go with this! And that is IF he volunteering gives up his power again.
Is it enought making fun of the USA? I can keep on going:)
Not European, but I hope too Europeans grow a spine, and hold their NATO diplomats accountable today.
Skip the protest, go straight demotion and enlisting antifascists.
A good chunk of the population of major European countries are just the slightly less violent, racist and stupid versions of their American counterparts… Idk man, I’m not feeling any sort of serious anti-imperialist revolution happening any time soon.
That’s why we need more folks like you that are aware of the issues and tackle them physically unless more dead bodies are sent to alligators.
Let’s end fascism once and for all.
I liked the way you guys burned a precinct during covid
