ISLAMABAD/WASHINGTON, May 8 (Reuters) - A top Chinese-made Pakistani fighter plane shot down at least two Indian military aircraft on Wednesday, two U.S. officials told Reuters, marking a major milestone for Beijing’s advanced fighter jet.
An Indian Air Force spokesperson said he had no comment when asked about the Reuters report.
Yeah, because they’re all from before 2019 and therefore don’t counter the Pakistani government’s claim that they took over the camp in 2019.
Fair enough, but I expect more than skepticism as justification for bombing what is ostensibly civilian infrastructure, and from what I know if India has evidence it remained in use as a terror camp after 2019 they haven’t provided it.
Edit: I didn’t directly respond to your points this time either because while they do prove the Pakistani army is in bed with terrorists, they’re not proof that this particular camp is being used by terrorists. Civilian infrastructure (or what is claimed to be civilian infrastructure) shouldn’t be bombed based on vaguely related circumstantial evidence and vibes.
The broader points were Pakistan’s habit of denial, which has continued till 2022. If they shielded Mir till 2022, why do you expect me to believe they aren’t shielding the Muridke camp either? I agree, India should provide evidence to the international community. But Pakistan shouldn’t be taken at its word.
Not only that, Azhar gave a speech there after being reported missing for two years on, again, Nov. 30 2024, in Muridke. Three LeT members as of yesterday, 2025 were reported dead by Pakistan itself, and the Army attended their funerals and wrapped them in Pakistan flags and did their janaza in that very campus. This confirms the camp was active as of 2024 and terrorists were present when India struck that camp. Otherwise, why would those three LeT members die, if it was only civilian infrastructure? Why would Rauf lead the funeral at that camp, record it and upload it, if that very location did not have any terrorists? Why would Azhar feel secured enough to be right there and give a speech and record it, making it available to any journalist with an internet connection, in full view of his location? This is not ‘vibes’ based targeting. It’s cold, hard proof of the presence of known LeT members. That particular camp.
Yeah I agree.
Yeah that’s circumstantial evidence, which makes it slightly more likely but doesn’t prove that the camp was active in 2024.
Do you have a source for the claim that three LeT members died? Because the reporting I found said they were JuD members who lead prayers and acted as caretakers for the mosque, in which case that’s your answer for why they died in the strike. Also, if they were indeed LeT members, maybe because they were there for any other reason? I mean it has a mosque and a madrasa, places Muslims would want to go to for reasons other than to attack India.
Why not? I’m not sure what exactly you wanted to happen here.
Because he was confident nobody would turn him in? I don’t see the connection between this and Muridke being active.
Everything you outlined here is, as I said, vaguely related circumstantial evidence that only serves as evidence if you’re already convinced Muridke was being used as a terrorist camp. You still need cold, hard evidence here, and I see none.
Why would an ordinary masjid host a well known, widely despised figure like Saeed? As far as I am aware, ordinary Pakistanis condemn Saeed for the Mumbai attacks.
From this paper https://web.archive.org/web/20110507114538/http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/Tankel_LeT_0.pdf. JuD is a known front of Lashkar. The camp was for the purpose of Daura-e-Sufa, Daura-e-Aam and Khas are done elsewhere.
If it was civilian infrastructure, why was the man leading the funeral a famous terrorist, and not a local religious cleric? And see, here’s the thing. If you join LeT, you are a terrorist. Doesn’t matter if you just go there to sweep the floors. And no, ordinary Muslims don’t go to mosques associated with global terror organisations. LeT is officially a banned organisation in Pakistan, and has a huge stigma among Pakistanis because of its involvement in the the 2000s, like the Mumbai attacks, Parliament attacks and Red Fort attacks. Why would Pakistanis go there when they have condemned the attacks and called them unislamic? If ISIS opened a mosque near you, and you knew it was frequented by famous ISIS members, would you go there every Friday? It’s not just a mosque, it is an LeT mosque that spreads LeT propaganda.
Frankly, you’re just dismissing everything as coincidences. The original comment was in response to the article claiming that the mosque was an ordinary religious structure. I have successfully disproved that. I don’t work for the Indian intelligence agency. I’m sure they have far better proofs. Either way, I condemn this reactionary war. Neither side values the life of civilians and both sides are shit, not because what India targeted weren’t terrorist sites. Killing terrorists and destroying terror facilities doesn’t end terrorism, just postpone it on the short term. Actually cracking down on terror, preventing radicalisation, helping Kashmir, and acting against the bourgeois sponsors of global terror does. For this, Pakistan has to comply as well, and it isn’t likely to being a deeply reactionary bourgeois dictatorship. The end of LeT can only be accomplished by Pakistanis overthrowing its military government to establish a people’s republic and our own proletarians to do the same. But that is a far off fantasy, looking at the state of both the Pakistani and Indian people swayed by the PTI on one side and the various bourgeois nationalist governments on the other.
Saeed? You mean Azhar?
I have no idea, though I could think of a few reasons (including that the three people who would normally lead such a prayer are all dead).
Yeah… no. According to Wikipedia,
If everyone working in any of those activities is a terrorist, then by a similar logic all Indian government employees are affiliated with the Indian army and therefore valid military targets, “even if they’re there to sweep the floors”, because the Indian army is by far the biggest terrorist organization in Kashmir. If we reject that logic, then the three men who were killed in the strike are civilians who were affiliated with LeT’s peaceful wing. You can hate “indoctrination” all you want (if that’s indeed what they were doing); that still doesn’t make a building a valid military target. Unless you’d like Kashmiri militants to attack Kashmiri Hindu priests who advocate against separation from India.
So for religious education with no combat purpose to speak of? That’s militant infrastructure? In that case any Indian schools are valid targets for Kashmir militants, because this logic goes both ways.
Assuming the government takeover is just for show, which you haven’t provided concrete evidence for beyond speculation. that’s circular reasoning. Also, it’s entirely possible that LeT is condemned in most of Pakistan and still supported in Kashmir, especially since LeT is a lot more than a militant organization. I’d wager the people they aided in the Kashmir earthquake would be perfectly willing to go to their mosque, for example. It seems to me like you’re using excessively simplistic lines of thought to derive the conclusion you want.
Because everything you just mentioned works just as well as a coincidence as it would if your claim was correct. What you’ve outlined here, if charitably interpreted (or uncharitably depending on how you look at it) warrants a “hmm, maybe we should look into this further”, but doesn’t serve on its own as evidence that anything rocket-worthy was going on in Murikde.
Why do you trust the Indian army so much? Have you not considered the possibility that they simply don’t care, given that they’re taking orders from a known fascist?
*Azhar. Yes, it’s a terrorist organisation. It is a UN designated terrorist organisation. If you’re calling ‘religious education’ given to men like Ajmal Kasab (he mentioned it in his confession) then I have nothing to say to you. The Indian army doesn’t tell people to kill Hindus, it employs both Hindus and Muslims. Indian schools don’t tell us to kill Muslims, this is some delusional shite.
Okay, and? There’s no label that makes everyone you stick it with okay to bomb. According to international law (and common human decency), you have to look at what that person actually does before you can decide whether they’re okay to bomb or not. To repeat myself, no terrorist organization in Kashmir is worse than the Indian government’s reign of terror.
-Wikipedia. There’s a reason only Indian-administered Kashmir is the site of a decades-long insurgency.
Read the article before you make such claims. Because it quite literally does tell people to kill Muslims. There’s a whole subsection in the article titled “mass graves” ffs.
Here’s my guess: They teach that India has a legitimate claim to Kashmir and Pakistan is infringing on its territory. If that’s the case, then given the shit Indian soldiers get up to in Kashmir separatists would have a case in saying that Indian achools and anti-separatist Hindu temples are sites of indoctrination and that makes attacking them okay. If it’s okay for you, it’s okay for them, because just as you have your terror attacks they have their mass graves and half widows.