NoneOfUrBusiness

Are we just supposed to silently watch hundreds of thousands of people be murdered?

Yes, but you don’t have to. If you want to do something about this see what your local anti-Zionist organizations are doing. Look at what the Spaniards made their government do; if the people demand their government clean its hands off the genocide or else it’ll happen.

Always has been. Honestly it’s impressive that they managed to even survive as a democracy for sp long, but it seems to be coming to an end (please Bibi we’re counting on you).

Personally I’d put Americans with the Hungarians and Turks instead. Still bad, but not quite that bad… Yet.

I mean you can’t play that card when the entirety of slavery was justified by that same Christianity up until the point that a civil war ended the argument.

Uh… No? Slavers made up race to justify slavery specifically because they couldn’t use Christianity to justify it anymore.

Always has been. Look up Tel Aviv University’s peace index for more despair juice. There should be a findings link if you want to see the depravity of Jewish Israeli society in detail.

Uh… The one in Gaza?

This is the Arab / Muslim area.

Yeah this is what I’m talking about. Christians live in these areas too, making up 5% of the population of East Jerusalem.

Zionism is complicated, because “Jewish” can be a religion, nationality, culture, or ethnicity/race, or any combination of the above, depending on who is using the term and in what context.

“Jewish” can be any of those things, but Zionism pretty explicitly treats Jews as an ethnicity/nationality. This is why even liberal/atheist Jews are considered Jews by Zionists.

MAGA is absolutely strongly correlated with evangelical Christianity in the US.

Yes, but did that materially contribute to their fascist rhetoric or actions? From what I know their rhetoric is mostly race and nationality-based, which is why they’re going after immigrants and non-whites rather than atheists and other sects of Christianity. In fact while MAGA is correlated with evangelical Christianity it doesn’t exactly reject atheists, with 27% of voters not affiliated with any religious group being Republican..

Religion still does enable violence. Just because you’re citing a specific example where it arguably did not does not falsify that.

I thought I made it pretty clear I talking specifically about fascism and its offshoots like Zionism, Nazism and MAGA.

No? It’s a Jewish area and a Palestinian area. Palestinian Christians aren’t spared by Israel.

Atheists, is this guy just an idiot or do y’all actually believe this?

Let me rephrase: Yes, and I’m saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler’s inherently race-based ideology, even as a cover. Nazis were religious to the extent that everyone at the time was religious, but religion was just another thing they pandered to and didn’t have a big role to play in their activities except insofar as all non-Nazi ideologies—religious or not—were targets of extermination.

The Nazi Party publicly and loudly identified with religion

Okay and? Did you want them to be outspoken atheists in 1920s Germany?

Most historians argue he was prepared to delay conflicts for political reasons and that his intentions were to eventually eliminate Christianity in Germany, or at least reform it to suit a Nazi outlook.

and persecuted and purged the Jews who had been treated awfully by Christians in Europe for centuries.

Okay and? Antisemitism was already a thing independent of the Christianity that created it. The Nazis also went after leftists, (forgot to complete that sentence so edit:) Romas, Catholics and Slavs, among others.

“The Führer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race. This can be seen in the similarity of their religious rites. Both (Judaism and Christianity) have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end they will be destroyed.” So privately Hitler was religious, and publicly the Nazis were religious,

Yeah why do you want them to be atheists? Nearly everyone was religious back then, so obviously they were going to be religious too. And in the first place, Hitler repeatedly challenged orthodox religious beliefs in his time, so if anything to him Christianity was a pain in the ass that he needed to deal with and not a part of his ideology. He also persecuted non-Nazi Christians almost as soon as they took power.

and one of the most sickening, widespread, and prominent atrocities they committed was the persecution and genocide of a religious minority.

See above.

“Religion enables violence” is not the same as “All violence is caused by religion.”

Yes, and I’m saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler’s inherently race-based ideology. Hell, the Nazis defined Jews via their ancestry, not their religious observance. What did religion have to do with the Generalplan Ost or the Aryan race?

This makes them unfortunately well suited for fascist takeover.

-You. This whole conversation is also about fascism. The proposition that religion is fertile ground for fascism is simply not supported historically.

Yes, it can be a positive tool. But it’s a tool that has a well documented history of repression and violence.

Yes, but not under fascism. That’s what I’m trying to say here. Screw the Crusades, post-Reformation wars, the modern Iranian regime and the Taliban, but that shit has nothing to do with fascism. Religion and fascism (which is a form of state religion) are actively competing ideas.

No? Religion can both support and oppose fascism, but looking at Hitler and Mussolini and thinking “religion did this” is frankly ahistorical and is nothing but a way for atheists to feel better about themselves.

The shit? The pioneers of fascism—Hitler and Mussolini—appealed to the Enlightenment-era ideologies of race and nationalism a lot more than they appealed to religion, and Ben Gurion was an atheist. Then in modern Israel you have liberal Jews and ultraorthodox Jews, who are both equally supportive of the genocide of Palestinians for Lebensraum (though liberal Jews are more likely to prioritize getting the hostages back). MAGA is also built on nationalism, race ideology and a notion of a “great America”, with religion only taking an auxiliary role. Again, fascism and Zionism were invented in and keep being practiced by the least religious region in the world; don’t make this the fault of religion because it’s quite obviously not. Religion isn’t the cause of everything you don’t like. Y’all invented this shit so own it.

Dude don’t blame this on religion. This is Zionism and fascism, both of which are post-Enlightenment Western inventions through and through.

The Democratic Party. That part is ironic use by me.

PhilipTheBucket liking that that IndustryStandard’s post was nuanced and not as simple as “Kamala bad”.

Uh… I’m pretty sure you misunderstood that. PhilipTheBucket was speaking ironically; they were saying that IndustryStandard’s response is still disinformation, just higher quality disinformation that’s meant to look vaguely plausible. This is not a nuanced discussion; it’s PhilipTheBucket dismissing IndustryStandard’s response as disinformation and propaganda meant to make America’s Great Saviors look bad.