Are you OK? The US oligarchs were operating gambling, drug, and human trafficking operations in Cuba under Batista. The US is the right wing garbage. The gusanos who left Cuba were their business partners, employees, customers, and collaborators.

Don’t talk about deporting people for their politics until you fix your politics first.

Do it

The decoupling begins

You don’t know what critical race theory is - you’ve never been curious enough to research it. You only know what white people tell you it is, because you are a passive consumer of the dominant ideology.

You should absolutely stop wading into political conversations you’re not equipped for and especially ones you’re not interested in becoming equipped for. Ignorance is not a viewpoint.

Everything else you said is just a rehash of your ignorant reactions to things you haven’t even tried to understand and every single time you encounter any of these ideas you will find a way to justify continuing to maintain your ignorance, because it keeps you emotionally, socially, and psychologically safer.

Good riddance.

You are correct that I have not read the work of an indigenous scholar on this topic. That is because my exposure to this kind of rhetoric has been through people chanting this in unrelated contexts/activism. AFAIK those people were not even indigenous themselves. I am sure that there are books and academic papers written by indigenous people out there outlining ideas on this topic.

Probably because you are white or white-adjacent and your access to information is primarily through other white people. I don’t need to answer for those people chanting whatever you heard. You need to answer for why you aren’t curious enough to actually explore the scholarship on this topic but you’re more than willing to wade into arguments with people on the Internet.

But let me also say that it is unclear to what degree the people who chant these vague slogans believe in what any given academic paper or book espouses

No investigation, no right to speak. Do you think I care what you think about what other people think about what other people think? Really? Do you think this is good rhetoric on your part?

This is essentially similar to the whole ‘defund the police’ situation.

Yes, it is. But not for the reasons you think it is. It’s similar because it intersects with whiteness and oppression.

Many “left wing”/" progressive “/liberal people claimed that this did not actually mean abolishing the police and that claims that it does are merely right wing fear mongering. Then someone literally writes an op-ed in the NYT that " yes, we do mean abolish when we say defund”.

Yes, because abolitionism has a long and storied and deep history and it attacks white power structures, so when white liberals want to feel good about themselves they chant slogans of oppressed people and get emotional but refuse to do the work and when push comes to shove these white liberals literally believe that what oppressed people want is what white liberals want, and it’s not. Defund the Police is an abolitionist position, and everything else is just being filtered through white privilege and white guilt.

Many “left wing”/" progressive “/liberal people claimed that this did not actually mean abolishing the police and that claims that it does are merely right wing fear mongering. Then someone literally writes an op-ed in the NYT that " yes, we do mean abolish when we say defund”.

That’s called agitation. It’s not a policy. It’s doing exactly what it was meant to do, which is piss you off. The reality is that many white people are likely going to need to go back to Europe because they will resist black and indigenous sovereignty and what it will entail. Dismantling the structures of oppression inherently means dismantling the infrastructure of white society. They are one in the same.

But the vague language surrounding this subject does not fill me with hope that it is

You think vague language is indicative of well-formed dominant ideas? Are you daft? You yourself have admitted you haven’t even bothered to READ about it, what do you know about the language surrounding it except 4th hand shit filtered through your network of whiteness?

My worry about ethnic cleansing is not the result of some kind of projection; it is the result of people chanting these kinds of slogans and talking about “decolonization” being (seemingly deliberately) vague about what this actually entails in practice and the knowledge that rhetoric about people 'not rightfully belonging" somewhere historically has led to horrific bloodshed and ethnic cleansing. None of that anything to do with historical European colonization of the Americas but with much more recent history.

You’re just so goddamned ignorant it hurts. Show me where Pol Pot’s ethnic cleansing used “vague language”. Show me the vague language being used by Israel and the USA in their ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Show me the vague language in Mein Kampf about the ethnic cleansing. It’s not there. It’s all very clear language. And you are absolutely projecting because other than Cambodia, which I don’t for a second believe you’ve even researched let alone studied seriously, I doubt you can name any ethnic cleansing campaign that wasn’t perpetrated by Europeans. Indigenous people have no interest in ethnic cleansing, they have been CRYSTAL CLEAR in their saying so, and they give examples of the multi-ethnic make up of their reservations, places where they actually have sovereignty today, as a great example. You can’t just live in your delusional fantasy land and then come out swinging at ghosts.

what does “ultimately redrawing the borders” mean in practice.

It literally means a change in sovereignty in practice. If you don’t understand what that means, you’re going to have to study. I can’t educate you that deeply. It means that the borders between North and South Dakota won’t exist any more, and that those state governments won’t exist, because the borders that define the jurisdiction of those state governments won’t exist. A government that governs that land will exist, but it won’t be the same size and shape as the governments that currently govern that land. The same will true through South America, Africa, and likely parts of Asia. French Guiana, St Pierre and Miquelon, Saint Martin, Martinique, and Guadelupe won’t literally be part of France. The British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, Anguilla, The Caymans, Montserrat, and Turks and Caicos won’t literally be part of the UK. Puerto Rico will be independent. Hawaii will be independent. Sint Maarten, Curaçao, Aruba, and Bonaire won’t be literally part of the Netherlands.

Like, do you even understand how these borders came about? Or the names? America is named after an Italian. Once decolonization is effective, the name will from its inhabitants, not from its conquerors. The names of the states, just the NAMES not even the borders, are named after kings and queens of Europe (Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, Carolina, Louisiana), European colonizers (Pennsylvania, Washington), a number of European places (Jersey, York, Hampshire), and a number use names from the colonizer languages (Colorado, Montana, Vermont, Nevada). These places ALL had names given to them by the inhabitants of the land before a foreign king granted ownership of that land to random settlers who landed, killed a bunch of people living there and their ways of life and then gave it names.

Does everybody who currently lives within the borders of the United States get to stay within that area at least (which does not inherently mean there would be no ethnic cleansing but at least means it would be far less egregious than expelling people from an entire continent)?

How the fuck would anyone even be ABLE to expel that many people from an entire continent? This is pure victim fantasy. Again, indigenous reservations exist today, they have sovereignty over that land today, and they are ample examples of non-indigenous people living on those reservations. The larger answer, however, is that people are going to get displaced within the territory called the USA today, because climate change is making the current situation unlivable. Additionally, people are going to be displaced where there are big projects to correct the relationship with the ecosystem. People are going to feel displaced when told they can’t consume water at the rate they consume it anymore. People are going to feel displaced when sections of highway are torn up and dams are dismantled to return ecosystems to sustainable states. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT AN ETHNO STATE EXCEPT THE WHITE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFRAID OF RETRIBUTION.

I am not in favor of the exploitation or oppression of indigenous people but at the same time I am not in favor of ideologies that believe that we can simply turn the clock back centuries and achieve some kind of historical “justice” through violence.

There you go, arguing with ghosts and making shit up despite fully knowing you have no idea what you’re talking about and haven’t even been arsed to engage with the discourse. Historically, there has never been an end to oppression without violence. There will be violence. It’s inevitable, because the oppression will not stop unless it is forced to stop.

That is in my opinion only slightly better than traditional fascism.

Did you really just do the meme?! You have to understand how much this sounds like utter brain rot. We know that slaves were captured and suffered great violence, but slaves should never kill their masters - that’s only slightly better than traditional fascism. Fuck you.

We have to achieve the closest possible thing to justice within the constraints of the realities of today and with the people who are alive today and who are not responsible for the actions of people generations ago.

This is just ignorant. Ethnic cleansing of indigenous culture using the residential school system was happening well into the 1990s. Black and indigenous women were sterilized against their will as POLICY into the 1970s. Their are people alive today in the USA living on property that was acquired using the wealth extract from slaves and even making money from tourism that is centered around the experience of seeing how slave owners lived. The placement of some highways, of towns, of dams, that are all existing TODAY, were chosen explicitly because they would be part of the destruction of indigenous culture. You don’t just get to say that because it was someone’s granddad who made the decision we all have to live with it now because granddad is dead and gone. That’s not even ridiculous, it’s malicious.

Finally, I am not a fan on vague slogans in general, especially in the context of issues as sensitive as this one.

No one gives a shit what you’re a fan of. People don’t craft messages based on what makes you comfortable. Educate yourself or stop talking.

The fact that you think no one ever elaborates means you’re not actively engaged in the ongoing conversation. This has been a conversation within the the indigenous community for decades. There are indigenous academics all over the world writing about this stuff at high levels of discourse analyzing the problem through a plethora of critical lenses.

The fact that you think it could be anything near ethnic cleansing shows that you’re not ready to have the conversation. You think you’re a victim and that you don’t deserve to have your life disrupted. The indigenous discourse has been so very clear on this topic that the only excuse for you still saying this is that you think you’re curious but you haven’t read a single indigenous scholar, listened to a single indigenous podcast, or asked an indigenous person about the topic. That’s not curiousity, it’s intellectual dishonesty.

Decolonization means repairing the damage done by colonization through the dismantling of all structures that colonization relies upon. Ultimately that will mean redrawing borders entirely. Right right now what that means is fighting to have all treaties recognized and enforced. In the middle it means the transfer of sovereignty over portions of land from the colonial state to the indigenous people.

There are plenty of non-indigenous non-tribal-member people living on reservations right now. Reservations are not ethnically “pure”, so why would anyone be talking about ethnic cleansing. When you worry about ethnic cleansing, you are projecting the crimes of your own people onto the victims of that crime and then saying the reason you’re going to continue oppressing them is because of you don’t they’ll commit the same crimes your people did.

Help as in rebuild? Hopefully it will. Help as in fight Russia? That’s delusion.

Think he’ll make it back to Ukraine?

PRC will never help the USA build up industry because the USA is a criminal settler colony. China will help whatever state emerges from the ashes of the USA rebuild after decolonization.

What other countries? England? Germany? France? The industrial center has moved to China. The only country that could help would be China. And China is not going to help the USA build up the industrial capacity of a genocidal settler colony that will use that industrial capital to produce weapons.

No, it’s not realistic to assume that anyone is going to come and just help America. When America is no longer the world empire, the process of decolonization will eliminate this particular state and replace it with something unrecognizable. It won’t be called America, it won’t be Eurocentric, it won’t be trying to compete in world markets. It will be dismantled and gone.

This is still a financial assessment, not a real one. There aren’t enough people who know how to architect, build, design, deploy, and operate the kinds of factories America would need. It would take 30 years minimum to even get to place of approaching where China was 20 years ago. By 2055, China will be so far ahead it’s ludicrous.

And that’s just the US trying to play catch up. China dominates academic research in high tech. The US would take at least 30 years to rebuild its university system to produce enough research and innovation that it could compete in the next century’s high tech arena.

And the US’s public schooling system doesn’t have what it needs to produce workers for that economy. Another multi-decade project.

And all of that doesn’t even touch the infrastructure problem. Transit just for employees is untenable for what would need to be done due to suburban sprawl and lack of public transit. But the rail, the roads, and the bridges aren’t in good enough repair to handle reindustrialization. And neither is the power grid, the water system, nor waste management. China is so far ahead on all of these aspects of infrastructure, it would take 30 years and about 4 New Deals worth of investment to just be able to compete with China of 2015.

There’s no way. The US is well and fully cooked.

You libs are so ridiculous. Can you imagine - the ENTIRE CIA, NSA, FBI, and DoD fully aware that the sitting president is a compromised Russian asset only doing things for the betterment of Russia and just shrugging their shoulders like “eh, what can we do?”

How detached from reality do you have to be to think that the country with the most money, the most colony, the most military bases, that spends two times more on its domestic police than Russia spends on its entire national military including nukes, that has the vast majority of billionaires, that has the most powerful financial institutions, that has the world reserve currency, that has the strongest influence over OPEC, that controls NATO, that indiscriminately destroys countries all over the world, that regular kills and coups leaders all over the world…

How the fuck does the the most powerful man in the world need Russia for anything? How do it’s institutions just not neutralize or assassinate him? How does our elaborate system of checks and balances just do absolutely nothing in the face of a uneducated senile old man?

You are delusional if you think Trump is just doing Putin’s bidding. Delusional.

This is the opposition’s strategy. Trump is bad because he’s siding with China.

That is literally what happens at the end of a war. The loser gives up their wealth.

It’s quite clear to everyone who has been studying history that Russia is not doing colonialism, has stated explicitly that the invasion was because it could not distinguish NATO activity on its border from a real nuclear threat, and proceeded to behave exactly as if that was the case.

Just go look up NATO exercises in Ukraine. The first one ever was months before EuroMaidan. After that, NATO flew fucking B-52s in exercises right next to Russia. They even ran an exercise that was a simulation of invading Kaliningrad.

And just so we’re clear. Military exercises are when you build a logistics chain, activate units, and engage in every activity that you would if you were actually invading - the only difference is that you pull back before crossing borders or violating airspace. That means Russia has to activate defenses just in case this exercise ends up being the real thing. That is to say, NATO was literally operating in Ukraine and doing dry runs for invading Russia.

And you think Russia was doing a colonialism?

I think the unraveling of US imperialism is a result of China, and subsequently BRICS, outmaneuvering the entire Atlantic Empire. Trump is just overseeing it and giving it a spin. The empire was going to continue its decline regardless who was in office. The speed with which the empire is reconfiguring itself, though, could really only happen under Trump, as Harris would have been too status quo.

Don’t threaten me with a good time.

Then they said, “Oh God. The Germans were supposed to defeat those commies but now the commies are on track to win the entire war themselves!”

So they jumped in, fought less than 20% of the Nazis, got to Berlin long after the Russians liberated it, and then claimed that the US are the anti-fascist heroes after dropping nukes on hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians while in the middle of a negotiation with Japan.

I agree. I think there’s two considerations that could flip Russia.

1. Military exhaustion. If the US can create a viable strategic threat to Russia, Russia may choose junior partner status over war. I think this is unlikely given the USA’s performance in Ukraine, but I know these games are played at the intelligence level and the USA may still be able to show Russian intelligence some form of dangerous strategic threat either in domestic irregulars or to Russia’s interests in Africa and SE Asia.

2. Financial gain for a younger faction of Russian bourgeoisie. Euromaidan showed us that despite decades of anti-West sentiment and Western duplicity, there was still enough support in Ukraine for a Western reproachment. I imagine there is likely a faction in Russia that is similar. If the USA can offer junior imperial status to them, it might convince them to seize power. I think this unlikely due to the failure of Western sanctions but it’s possible that some of the younger and willing bourgeoisie are in fact hurting and that the older bourgeoisie are dominating the partnerships with China. These would be conditions that could cause such a realignment.

Yog, you think this is going to be reproachment to ask Russia if they want to join the club? I hope Russia is hardened against the possibility by previous betrayals, but I have been worried since 2016 that the move has always been getting Russia to turn against China.

My confirmation-biased logic tells me Russia and China are only getting closer and Russia is building more dependencies on China, but my gut has been saying for almost 10 years that the only move the USA has ever had was to get Russia to join them against China. Maybe what I was sensing wasn’t world historical movements but merely the unspoken ambition of the new guard, but I have to imagine that if I am picking up on that ambition, they must have some reason to believe it’s possible to enlist Russia.