Just infantile Western propaganda/russophobia. reverse it for Western reality, and ignore the post…
No, not that very obvious thing that people have been saying for years! I simply refuse to believe it!
The entire article seems like an attack. The author finds a unique identifier and adds “Russia bad” throughout.
States the information is in cleartext but then explains how everything is encrypted (in transit).
What will the author do if they intercepted any single online stores transfer of credit card details. Also encrypted in transit but Is that also deemed as cleartext? Or is that okay?
I don’t think much new is learnt here. WhatsApp also sends metadata in “cleartext” (not really, as it’s encrypted in transit, but this article called that “cleartext”).
Russia bad btw.
I don’t know… I think the author put a lot of effort on document things and presenting evidence.
Your post history and mod logs are also quite weird.
Your post history and mod logs are also quite weird.
Lol what does that mean
Awesome analysis. Thank you!
I’m not the author. You can thank @rysiek@szmer.info for this amazing write-up
Heh, thanks. AMA I guess.
Not a question, but you’ve written some fantastic articles, thanks — I’ve added your website to my RSS feed!
Thank you, that’s really great to hear!
AMA is AMA
- What lead you to dive into examining Telegram?
- How would you use it if abandoning it is not an option, safety-wise, on android? Like, opening it in browser instead, killing app from the background, or using some app\tool? Not using it for anything sensitive is obvious.
- What are other potential worms is in there you may think of? Recently, Yandex and Meta analytics tools got caught in sending browsing data to phone’s localhost - where their locally installed apps caught it and sent back home. If the FSB conection is that deep, there is no end to what they’d want to mine from users.
It’s not the first time I see your discovery shared and I want to thank you. It won’t completely disencourage people around me from using it but it’d pile up with other many reasons to do so. Someday there would be just enough of them, like it happened with VK, Facebook etc, I believe.
AMA is AMA
What have I done.
What lead you to dive into examining Telegram?
I do information security work, and I used to work closely with investigative journalists hailing from Russia, Kazachstan, Ukraine, and other places in that general area. Telegram is massively popular there. Because of this Telegram has been on my radar for a very long time as a serious security threat – not just because its protocol and management are suspect, there are plenty of other IMs like that, but also because of how many people I worked with had used it.
I’ve written about Telegram before, on amore general level (linked in the blog post), so when IStories reached out to me for comment on this it was a good inspiration to dive deeper.
How would you use it if abandoning it is not an option, safety-wise, on android? Like, opening it in browser instead, killing app from the background, or using some app\tool? Not using it for anything sensitive is obvious.
I would not use it. I refuse to accept that abandoning it is not an option. There are plenty of options. It’s always a decision one can make.
Please remember that even if hypothetically you could use it in a way that protects you from the spying – something I am very, very doubtful of! – the mere fact you are using it sucks other people into using it. You personally become one more reason for someone to start using or keep using Telegram. You personally become one more “user” of Telegram, justifying another media organization or NGO to set up or maintain a presence there – which in turn pulls in even more users into the dragnet.
In other words, your decision to use Telegram anyway, even though you know what the issues are, becomes one of the many things that make other people feel that “abandoning is not an option”. I refuse to be a part of that. The only thing I can recommend is to stop using it.
What are other potential worms is in there you may think of? Recently, Yandex and Meta analytics tools got caught in sending browsing data to phone’s localhost - where their locally installed apps caught it and sent back home. If the FSB conection is that deep, there is no end to what they’d want to mine from users.
I think this hits the nail on the head: If the FSB conection is that deep, there is no end to what they’d want to mine from users.
I don’t want to speculate. The possibilities are vast. But I will say what I said in the blogpost: Telegram is indistinguishable from an FSB honeypot.
I don’t trust Telegram the company, I don’t trust Telegram the software, I don’t trust MTProto. I certainly do not trust Pavel Durov. I don’t think we need to speculate on what more could possibly be hiding there, what is already known about Telegram should really be enough to stop using it.
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Hahaha , so the conclusión is ? Use usa and israel software so they can spy us ? F… this crap propaganda.
Hi, author here. First of all, in that piece I don’t happen to recommend using any specific piece of software. I mention Signal and WhatsApp for comparison, as tools that are considered similar, and yet avoid making the same weird protocol choices.
Secondly, if you have any proof that any specific communication tool is used to “spy” on people, I am sure I am not the only person who would love to hear about it. That’s the only way we can keep each other safe online. Surely you wouldn’t be making unsubstantiated claims and just imply stuff like that without any proof, would you?
And finally, I’ve spent a good chunk of time and expertise on analyzing Telegram’s protocol before I made my claims. I provided receipts. I provided code. I explained in detail my testing set-up. You can yourself go and verify my results.
Instead, you claim it’s “propaganda”, while mischaracterizing what I say in that post. Classy!
I can’t say I read the whole thing because the technical analysis went over my head, but I don’t think we read the same conclusion
Conclusions
Based on the analysis of packet captures above, I believe it is clear that anyone who has sufficient visibility into Telegram’s traffic would be able to identify and track traffic of specific user devices. Including when perfect forward secrecy protocol feature is in use.
This would also allow, through some additional analysis based on timing and packet sizes, to potentially identify who is communicating with whom using Telegram.
fr it’s literally
no russia bad but trust our feds instead because we are the good guys bsfr 💀💀💀
But I can’t lie the analysis is still quite in-depth and feels like an effortpost
